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wanted. And Charlie was not re- elected. And I kept in correspondence with Charlie. He's still alive too.

You mentioned how segregated the schools remain in certain cities. I believe you mentioned Yonkers among them.

And New York.

And New York. You excluded Buffalo.

Buffalo is an example of a pretty realistic desegregation of the schools. I've visited some of the schools up there.

Is this continued segregation, and even increased segregation where it exists, the consequence of failure of desegregation moves, or was there some desegregation and then resegregation?

[tape interruption]

Did you complete everything you wanted to say about possible resegregation of the schools?

Well, I wanted to say that-- yes, there has been resegregation, but the determinant of resegregation as I see it is that we have not really had effective, firm, committed approaches to desegregation, and the whole problem started to get enmeshed in the non-issue of busing, which to me is a way of dealing with the