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Sure.

And the fight involved the Jews too.

That's right. And the Jews contributed to civil service reform or whatnot in the schools, because they were really excluded, and their major contribution, I thought, was to try to get merit rather than patronage as a determinant of authority in the schools. That was before blacks came in in the backwash of all of this.

Now to go back to your observations on the problems in the schools in Richmond, with the notable exception that you mentioned--

There was another exception. There was a Community High School, and there they had, I think, about thirty or forty per cent white. It was a very special school, without adequate facilities. But the very next day I went to a school that was 99.9% black, the Maggie Walker school, and that was deplorable.

Now to look outside the educational institutions in the South-- and here I'll have to rely on my recent observations in northern Virginia, having been there just eight and a half years-- but I keep thinking of the fact, here this was one of the citadels of resistance to desegregation, certainly while the Byrd political machine was in-- and I see there now, it seems to me on the metro buses in northern Irginia, Fairfax County, Alexandria and so forth, that the majority