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of bus drivers now are black. There are some black women. Including some black women. And I notice more and more black cashiers in the supermarkets and general stores, by whatever name they call them. The integration seems to have progressed rather rapidly.

In those areas.

Now this is anecdotal? Impressionist?

No. I call that the visibility index. The general impression is that when I go into the South, I do see more integrational jobs. For example, even Atlanta is quite different.

I wanted to make a separate segment, to continue on some of the black exodus into the suburbs. You've already touched on this. I want to hold back yet, because in these two pieces recently in the [NEW YORK] TIMES, one of which is built largely around your own family, they have given some focus to the school situation. And I'd like to ask you some questions about that, to see what your observations and analysis might be.

I was in Richmond when that came out.

Oh, were you? Perhaps I should put the dates of these. The NEW YORK TIMES, one is Tuesday, May 14, 1985, and the second one, which is built largely around your family, May 21, 1985. The May 14th one is