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My wife, by the way, was a member of the Head Start Commission of the Federal Government.

Was there a period some time after the Head Start program was under way when some studies were suggesting that maybe it wasn't so effective, that there was some disillusionment? But now more recently they've determined that it certainly has been effective.”

That's right.

Why would a study in that interim period have come out negatively?

I don't know. Because actually-- I don't know what their criteria is of effectiveness or ineffectiveness were, but just the fact of having a place where the children could go and inter- act and, you know, be given some guidance and support. By the way, the people in Richmond with whom I talked said that they weren't there just to be custodial. They were actually preparing the children for learning and reading and what not. And I observed some of those classes and the children did not seem to me the least bit frustrated. In fact, they seemed to be inter- acting and being involved in what was going on. And these people I don't think were prepared for our visit. And I being the kind of annoying person that I am, I didn't stick with the principal, I walked around and looked in classes independently.

By the way, how many of you were there, that went down there? What