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Did you feel that he was not the right choice because of lack of educational-- formal educational background?

Yes. I like Bobby Jr., but I thought that that was clearly a Koch goose. Which the Board went along with. My hunch is that Koch really felt that this was a way of moving Bobby out of City Hall.

Oh. It was that way rather than it was Koch's way of getting further control of the Board of Education, which we've read that he wants?

Yes. Sure. I think he has enough control now. He certainly s more control over the Board of Education than the Governor has over the Board of Regents.

I was going to ask you if there was some sort of analogue there.

Yes. Actually, my friend Max Rubin said before he left the Board of Regents that he felt that we didn't need a Board of Education in New York City. What you needed was the Mayor to appoint the Superintendent of Schools total and responsible, so that the public would know where the responsibility for the governance and the control and the efficiency and effectiveness, or inefficiency in the schools lay. Right now you have the Board of Education as an intermediary and e public really doesn't know who is responsible for the quality and