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And then he was followed by an appointment that did not work out.

[Antonio] Alvarado?

Alvarado. This is a footnote question and probably invites, if any response, a judgmental one. But why somebody like an Alvardo at least had the reported invitation of being quite innovative in his own school, in the rough sense that they're coming up-- why is it that some of these people seem to lose a sense of values and get themselves into some sort of a petty conflict of interest?

I don't know. You know, I'm supposed to be a psychologist, but believe me, psychologists don't have any more clear and precise answers to those types of questions than other intelligent human beings. It's impatience and hurry and greed. It was.

Greed? Loss of sense of values they might have had when they were younger?

In a hurry. That's my suspicion. I don't know, you need to spend a long time analyzing that gentleman.

Going back to Macchiarola, would you say that under all the circumstances he had to work, that he was quite helpful to the school stem of the city?