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likely to be on the surface than that substantive changes. One can hope that the surface changes will eventually--obviously, not in my life time, become more substantive. They're not likely to become really substantive, though, or genuine changes until we address ourselves to the problem of increasing the opportunities for masses of blacks to play a positive and constructive role in the society as a whole and the economy. Now, even as I say that I'm aware of the fact that such opportunities made[?] available to other ethnic groups such as Jews, Italians, Irish, Poles. These opportunities don't make for--you know, there are these groups embracing each other except when they're confronted with challenges from blacks. But the relationship between the Irish and others in say, Massachusetts, Boston is certainly much better than such relationships were at the beginning of the century because the Irish, for the most part, have had opportunities and entre in to the politics, the economy, and society. And Oscar Handlin keeps saying that this will happen to blacks, and when it does happen the relationship between blacks and other ethnic groups will be more positive, and genuinely just. I hope that's true. I hope that it will happen for my grandchildren.

Anything else today?

Coming back to the point I made in the beginning, I'm tired of hearing myself talk about this issue. I wish that I didn't have to think about these problems or talk about them. What would I do? I'd try to understand other things about human beings. Interestingly enough, this is telling me something about human beings except that