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Yes, but as a district leader he was not meshed in to their operation. They were, I presume, as their opposition to him indicated, were close together. I mean, they were closer than Hilton was. They were closer among themselves than Hilton was with them. He was a district leader. He did work very hard for Denny Farrell to be county Democratic leader. Denny was not openly opposed to Hilton but he certainly wasn't openly in support of Hilton.

He was sitting in the sands, in other words.

That's right. He was sort of neutral. More than sort of. He was neutral in his way. Percy Sutton was for Hilton and tried to advise Rangel, and Dinkins, and Paterson that they would not gain by opposing Hilton. Percy predicted to them that Hilton was going to win the committee.

Of course, Percy Sutton was Manhattan borough president, what was it, two or three terms?

Terms, yes. He ran for mayor against Koch, particularly, and I think Cuomo. Percy was, after he lost, got out of active politics.

Yes, as a matter of fact, in that primary he did not show up very well at all, did he?

No.