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certainly IBM, should continue on that basis. He did not take the position that IBM should supply the security forces with computers, however. I recently was talking with another high achieving black who is active in the South Africa question who was absolutely against divestment. What do you think the effect--?

I've changed my position. I'm not absolutely against divestment. I'm not even partially against--I'm for divestment because I think the government has made quite clear within the last few months that it is going to persist in oppression. Its cruelty is now flagrant. Its recent action in censoring and blocking journalists from communicating what is going on, all of these make clear to me that a rational approach to resolving the South African barbarity is not likely. I had questions about divestment and disinvestment as long as I felt that there was some hope that outside pressure would influence more positively the policies and practices of this government. What seems to be happening is that the opposite is happening, and I do not see how the blacks can be more harmed by divestment than they are being harmed now.

I had a contact with Bishop [Desmond] Tutu last week before he was here, and it was clear to me that that's his position now. He feels that this government in South Africa has gone to, or approaching extremes that can only lead to a kind of a Nazi-like barbarity without the concentration camps. I think they stopped short of that because of the large portion of blacks, where the Germans were dealing with a small, comparatively small number of Jews. A minority in Germany which is a majority in South Africa are