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Interestingly enough, most of the European trips were a combination of both. I could -- I mean, I had an argument with the I.R.S. on the first one, and I half won. But really, as a social psychologist, how the hell can you go anywhere, and not have it an integral part of your profession, your learning, you know? It's just not possible. I convinced a pretty rigid I.R.S. auditor that, you know, when we went to Scandinavia, Mamie and I, we spent more than half of our time visiting their social institutions, their facilities for children, for senior citizens. We obviously made comparisons. We talked to people in charge of these facilities.
Now, of course, we didn't spend all of our time doing that. For example, sometimes I'd just go around, walking around, looking at their more mature approach to sex than we have -- although I understand that they're beginning to re-think, in Denmark.
In Denmark, yes.
But to me, that was also an experience. I'll never forget, in Stockholm, when I came upon the first public show window display of pornography. I thought I was mature, you know. But I just took a double take -- Mamie was in my hotel, and I went back and said, “Look, you've got to get dressed and come and see this with me.”
No, there isn't any place that I've ever been that would not necessarily, inevitably get me involved in observing the human patterns and predicaments. Because I like them. I like human beings.
Would you like to mention here part of the tale of South Africa?
I think maybe we'll devote, maybe almost a session to it.
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