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Yes, that's not an irrelevant question at all. I mean, that's a very important question, because it really is the question that's at the heart of a lot of other things--maybe at the heart of everything else that I've been involved, in professionally and as a social activist practitioner.

I guess it began to come together when I started reading seriously Kleinberg, and seeing what he was saying about racial differences in intelligence. Yeah.

Before that, it was kind of fuzzy. You know -- well, hell, groups vary in average intelligence, etc. But I wasn't sure. I didn't really put it in a conceptual framework. Kleinberg helped me to do that. And (Franz) Boaz, you know, who influenced him.

Then, the evidence -- I started looking at the evidence, and it seemed to me that the whole question of -- well, the need for re-examination of the meaning of IQ's. Up to that time, I guess, like most people, I just sort of felt -- well, it's just too bad that some people have higher IQ's than others, and some groups have on the average higher IQ's than others. But the work of Boaz and the social anthropologists, and their influence on Kleinberg, who brought that perspective into psychology, --

And I guess the other path by which it got into psychology was behaviorism, see, which was almost Lockian in its environmentalistic emphasis. Not almost. It was Lockian.

So, a lot of things were converging, and came together, as far as my own thinking was concerned, when I started working with Kleinberg.