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We received three kinds of responses: indifference, insensitivity lack of understanding of what we were trying to say; or understanding, but the budgetary can't, that no one in the agencies felt that it could manage this in terms of financial realism; or, third, and fortunately not the most frequent response, just downright hostility. You know, as if we were sort of crazy.

Well, on the basis of these responses, which had the common denominator of being negative, we decided that we would set it up. It was then that I went back to Dr. Phipps and toldhim how much money we needed to get furniture and what not, and we set it up in 1946.

I took what little salary I was making then and did two things -- supported our two children -- our son was three years old at the time and our daughter was six -- and I paid a secretary and a remedial worker, who was associated with it. Now, how the hell I did that on my salary at that time, which I think was about $4000 a year, something like that, I don't know. But we had fun.

Within a year or so, we got some outside help and funding. By the way, all the other people who worked with us volunteered their services -- I mean, psychiatrists, social workers and what not, volunteered their services. The only people we had to pay were the secretary and the remedial worker, and I think we did that for about a year, year and a half.

And Mamie has never been happier. You know, I think you should go up and visit her, and talk with her about the early days at Northside, and 30 years later, and other things -- because I've been talking about my career and development as if it's possible to talk