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about it without her being an inextricable part of every aspect of it. If that's the impression that's given, it's totally inaccurate. I mean, she has been, from the early days in college, when I met her, when she was a freshman and I was a senior, every aspect of my life has been one in which she has played, literally, an inextricable role -- I mean, in terms of aspirations, in terms of goals, in terms of backing, in terms of support.

It's been not just a complementary role. I mean, it's been a -- well, as if she's been a part, you know. Up until today -- last night when we got in from Washington, I was dead tired, you know, and joking, and she said something, “And you don't think I have a sense of humor.”

I said, “If you didn't have a sense of humor, how could we have been around together for 38 years?” It's impossible to have a close intimate relationship with another person for 38 years without humor being an inextricable part. It's humor, together with shared values. That woman has never said to me, “Kenneth, I've got to have something because somebody else has it. “You know. She's never annoyed me by what I would call preoccupation with the petty. If anything, she always seemed to me to be more solid and substantive about things than I. For example, she could resign from the board of directors of the Museum of Modern Art because she felt that she was not making any substantive contribution there, and was pretty much sort of a token black on that board.

And I said, “Oh, Mamie, why the hell did you resign? I enjoyed going to their gatherings, their social gatherings.”