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All right, fine. Incidentally, you mentioned that you'll be seeing Ray Jones on the Virgin Islands. Will you be reminiscing with him down there at all?

Oh, we always do, sure.

Taking your tape recorder, incidentally?

My son, to whom I'll introduce you now, has a tape of -- a s eries of tapes --

This is a footnote which is of a short conversation here with Hilton Clark, who has tapes of Ray Jones. I wonder if you'd just tell me what those tapes are about?

Those tapes are concerned over -- we have over 48 hours of tape on Ray Jones' political and personal life, from start to finish, autobiographical material, and we're going to turn those tapes into a book, this summer.

OK. Now, this concludes the interview with Dr. Kenneth B. Clark, New York City, April 7, 1976.