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“Bob Wagner will have to take his orders from Johnson and Kennedy. You're not going to get any support from him.”

He went down the line. And I asked him to support me, you know. He said, “No. I'll support you only if you consent to share the loot with me.”

I said, “I don't want any loot.”

He said, “You're crazy. You're a child. You're a baby.”

Well, all the time, Ray Jones was backing me, because he had split with Adam, and he said, “The only person you really have is Ray, and Ray no longer has any power. As long as I'm chairman of the Education and Labor Committee of the House, Ray can't have any power, on this.”

Had Ray gone to the City Council yet?

I think he was at the City Council at that time, and Ray backed me 100 percent. Are we talking about your friend Ray Jones? I'm telling you -- the next time we meet, I'll have to give you all the details of that conflict, naming names, naming liberals, and not speculating but giving you facts, observed facts of how Adam Powell won a hands-down victory over the politically naive Kenneth Clark, who was naive enough to fight Adam with only the weapons of ideals. And Adam had all the real weapons. And the a consequence of that, in terms of the total perversion of HARYOU-ACT, or HARYOU-ACT being turned into an institutionalized hustle --

Well, that's all I can do today.