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frustrated or unwanted, or -- I never felt that there were things that other people with more money had, that were more important than what I had, in the bosom of my family, in my relationship with my mother and others whom I respected.

And I hate like hell the way this sounds. It doesn't sound -- it's -- well, the crises that we went through seemed to me all to have the common denominator of: how much were you willing to sell yourself for?

And I haven't yet found that price.

About Marian Ascoli's attitude -- did you consider her attitude reflecting white paternalism?

It wasn't just race. It was economic. I considered it reflecting what a wealthy person, with obviously limited perspective, and I don't think that all wealthy people have limited perspective, but Marian never really developed beyond the restrictions of her wealth. Does that make sense? She did really believe, up till today, that with uncountable millions, she should be able to purchase her wishes. And the only pace I guess that race would come in is that -- the thought that there'd be two black, at that time younger people, who would refute this, was probably enough to be intolerable.

She finds it awkward to relate to us now, you know. And I go out of my way to say hello to Marian wherever I see her. My wife is not quite as -- sadistic, I guess, and I use sadistic -- I really am aware of Marian's awkwardness in relating to me, and I act as if I'm not aware of it. I go off and I talk with her,