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you know, deliberately. Mamie is more plain, matter of fact-- you'll see, she's quite a different person than I. We share fundamental values.

Why are you so interested in Marian Ascoli?

I think this is part of the story of the struggles you've had out there, with HARYOU-ACT or the Northside Center.

Asmy friend Chris Edley said -- I can't blame anybody else for the “struggles..” I mean, what the hell.

I'm using struggle in a positive sense, of bringing in some social action that would change conditions.

And did I succeed?

Would conditions have been changed if Marian Ascoli would have had this kind of dictatorial control?

Yes. Now, that, in a limited sense, Northside Center would have been, you know, a social service, a colonial outpost. It would have been within the power of absentee landlords-- and it probably wouldn't exist now. That I'm convinced of. But that's rather limited, you know, It has nothing to do with the total Harlem scene. Well, I can say, it's just a speck -- but at least it's there, and it's a testament to the fact that two black people had the guts to say “no” to wealth. I'm proud of it, by the way. I'm proud of that. I don't have the mixed feelings which I have about the Adam Powell thing.