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That that would happen?

Oh, sure. Adam used people until they were no longer usable. And some people would say, some of my staff people said, “Kenneth, you use people like they're oranges, you squeeze the juice out of them and then throw away the rind..” I don't think they're telling the truth exactly.

When some of this public -- when some of these disputes became so public, almost to the point in some instances of verbal brawling, as I remember, -- I think I called you once, and you made the remark, “Adam reminds me of Samson in the Temple.” Do you recall having this kind of attitude some place in this period?

I think so. Adam would be capable of pulling down the Temple, if he didn't see that he could control it. But that's no --

Did you ever have any meetings other than those you've mentioned with civil rights leaders during this time... (off tape)

Side 2

Do you recall, during this period when the disputes became so public, between Adam and certain other black leaders, that you ever met with any of the civil rights leaders specifically to discuss whether there was any way of curtailing or containing his attacks on them?

Yes. I recall many discussions with civil rights leaders