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make staff decisions that were in the interests of the pork barrel approach, rather than in terms of giving this experiment an opportunity.

In other words, they wouldn't be the quality professionals that you would seek out, might not even be professionals.

I guess he would have given me my head, in terms of certain top things, provided he got his --

No, Adam clearly was, you know, he was making it clear that there was money to be made here. For example, in the real estate part of it, you know. Programmatic decisions -- all of them had the economic halo. He would be putting more importance on the money than he would on the program.

Well, hell, as I told -- so, what's new?

In other words, he would use this primarily as an investment.

Of course, and a political base, too. I mean, community action approach. His people would be in charge of the indigenous groups that we were going to organize.

In other words, he's setting up another part of a political machine.

And that's what he said. He said, “Look, Kenneth, if you think somebody else can come in here and organize a political machine against me -- I'd never let that happen. I'm going to build a political machine.” By the way, he didn't do that, because he didn't have competent people to build it with. I mean, Roy or