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During this period. And it was, I think, a complex illness, a combination of physical and psychological illness. And it was clear in that campaign that Adam was really going through the motions, you know; that his heart wasn't in it. He'd had it. And Charlie picked the right time to run against Adam. Although, interestingly enough, a number of people, including myself, thought that he would probably win -- Adam would probably win, on just the momentum of the past, in spite of the fact that it was clear that he wasn't up to his usual harangues and emotional, you know, stimulation and incitement of the people. It was-- I was going to say, the beginning of the end, but it was probably-beyond the beginning of the end, for Adam.

My son saw it, from the beginning. There were two people in that whole coterie of people who were around Charlie Wrangel who really believed that Charlie had a chance of defeating Adam at that time, and those two were Ray Jones and my son Hilton Clark. I still believed that if Percy Sutton had thought that Adam could have been defeated at that time, he would have run. Maybe not just Percy, but others would have run too.

Well, to come back to the general conclusion of the last interview, Adam has won the fight as far as HARYOU-ACT goes, funding and all the rest. What did you do then?

What I usually do --withdraw and lick my wounds. I went back to the college. I tried to understand what happened and why, and came to the conclusion that one of the key things that was at