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change of perspective and policy in the governance of public
schools in New York City. I did not offer myself as involved or
in any leadership role to one or more of the community groups. In
fact, I deliberately stayed away from that, and lent myself
therefore to justifiable suspicions as to what was my role. And
some of the groups thought that my role was that of apologist for
the establishment, in a sort of a double agent or triple agent
And MARC did concentrate a disproportionate amount of its
time on the problem of the public schools, the quality, the racial
imbalance, and this was dovetailed with my role as Regent. And
during the eight years or nine yearsof my stewardship, the problems
got worse and worse and worse. The evidence was clear that we had
more segregation in our schools each year. The equality of education
in the schools, as reflected by reading scores, gets worse and
worse. The only thing that increased was my conflicts with Mr.
Shanker and his puppets at 110 Livingstone St.
(One of these days, if we talk long enough, I'll think of
something positive to say about something I was involved in.
I swear to God, I can't think...)
What were the main arguments you got into with Shanker?
Well, it started with Ocean Hill-Brownsville, thing, where
Shanker and his union were the most powerful overt supporters of
the status quo. Opponents of the people's involvement in seeking
to control the quality and the personnel of the schools to which
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