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Now you're talking about the state AFL-CIO?
Yeah. Yes, near the end -- when he was involved in the
struggle in the beginning, he really didn't want any part of it,
you know. He wanted things to remain pretty much the way they were.
But in the process, -- I keep talking about the importance of
process and dialogue -- actually he benefited by the process, because
he saw, as the process continued, that this could, he could have
the best of both worlds. And it turned out that that's really what
happened, until the fiscal crisis caught up with him.
Well, do I recall correctly that part of the struggle involved
trying to get more black teachers in these schools? Perhaps
How'd you recall that? I thought you were supposed to
repress -- you're not supposed to remember that?
Teachers and principles, administrators --
-- and principles, administrators also, of course.
And Shanker --
Shanker and the supervisory association -- there was a time
there when there was closed ranks, the teachers, the principles,
the assistant superintendents, and the board were indistinguishable
in their opposition to any significant change that would result in
even the semblance of some kind of increased democracy in our
Aren't you tired of this discussion?
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