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Well, I want to go back to the teacher question, though. In your efforts, lobbying, so forth, to get more black and Spanish teachers, did you envision as a practical matter that it would be the replacements through attrition, or as attrition occurred, that would be of other ethnic backgrounds? Or was there any suggestion here that some of the teachers already in their jobs would be displaced?

Well, certainly I didn't think of displacement. I thought of -- and again, this may be kind of naivete that I'm accused of -- sharing. Just as, a few decades ago -- I suppose, four or five decades ago -- the Jewish group rightly questioned the, what appeared to be a sort of monopoly of the eduational system by the Irish, and were very effective, instrumental in bringing about some reforms in the selection of teachers and administrators-- civil service examination approach -- so that education was not a pork barrel system, as it was before. You know, purely political patronage sort of thing, where the college-trained son, daughter, nephew, niece could go into education rather than politics. And this certainly was an important contribution of the Jewish group, in seeking to share in the educational process through the reform of examination approach to the selection of personnel.

I saw the community control approach as a way in which blacks and Hispanics could, at this time, where their numbers were increasing significantly, and they were still excluded from the educational system, structure, that they would be included only by an