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of papers. People who didn't have a damn thing to do with acquiring, say, the State Department contract intruded themselves into allegedly administrative decisions, but which had quality or -- you know-- research implication.

I said, “Damn, go to hell, leave me alone --”

Well, the bureaucratic administrator, that's the last damn thing to do, and he knows his job depends upon not leaving people alone.

By the beginning of the second year, I just said to Larry, “Look, damn it, you take this over. You deal with these people. I can't deal with them. It's non-productive. I mean, if I get on the phone with them, before that phone call is over I'm saying, ‘Look, dammit, I don't care whether you get it or not, just --’”

I obviously didn't have the diplomacy or whatever the hell it took to deal with this type of person. So I said, “Larry, you and Claire handle this. Leave me alone.”

And I sunk myself into the State Department study, and another study that we had -- two others, the Hazen Foundation Study and the Stern Family Fund study, and if we needed to have any contact with the administration, I'd tell Larry, who was on the second floor, “Larry, we need this or that or something of that sort, “and maybe in a week or so, he would get It. In the meantime, we would steal it from the department, or something like that.

By the end of the second year, the new director of the Field Foundation, Les Dunbar, and one of the members of his