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on the particular issues at the particular time. And in return, got clobbered, you know.

And we went through eight years of this, but this was what we were set up to do -- I protect, I repeat, the interests of groups whose interests are ordinarily ignored bymore powerful groups.

Now, who asked us to do this? Certainly not the powerless people. In fact, initially many of them were quite suspicious of our motivation. The people who asked us to do it were rather powerful people, wealthy people who could set up a foundation. And we used the foundation's funds to do what the foundation director told us he wanted done, and we never questioned his sincerity. We -- nobody from that direction -- and by the way, within a year after we were set up, the Ford Foundation came in and initiated discussions about how they could be of help, and they became our major financial contributors, and the only time I ever saw the peopleat Field show a little resentment, it was a kind of a sibiling rivalry thing that they showed when our annual report showed that the Ford Foundation was contributing two or three times what they contributed.

And, I repeat, not once in my stewardship of MARC was there any attempt on the part of the Foundations to control us, you know. They may have had some questions, or something of that sort, and certainly I know that Les had some questions, and he'd come in, sometimes, sit down, and we would discuss whatever questions he had. I don't ever remember modifying our approach