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Let me just pick up a few details of some of the things
that you mentioned here. First of all, you've mentioned your
participation in the Herter Commission.
How did you participate?
I guess, by invitation. The Carnegie Endowment for International
Peace put up the money to have a group of people -- it was
not public, I mean, no part of it was publicly financed -- to examine
our foreign service personnel and procedures. You know how it operates.
I guess I was invited to be a member of that Commission,
obviously, for one reason I guess, that I was black. But a side from
that, because I had done the State Department study on the recruitment,
selection, examination, evaluation and promotion of foreign service
officers. That was the study we had done at Social Dynamic.
That was the study you referred to earlier today.
Yes. And that study was completed -- now I'm getting my
times mixed up -- I don't know whether I'd completed that study before
I was a member of the Herter Commission. I know I was a member of
the Herter Commission when I was involved in HARYOU, so obviously the
Herter Commission occurred before I had done the State Department
study. However, I was involved with the State Department from 1961 --
I mean, the first year of the Kennedy Administration, Dean Rusk
invited a few of us down to help him with what he considered to be
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