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Jock Whitney -- there were about seven or eight, maybe nine, members of the Commission, with an excellent staff, staff director from Stanford, professor of political science there by the name of Fritz Mosher, who mobilized a very good supportive staff, and they did, within a single year, what I have not been able to do in seven years with the Rockefeller grant, namely, you know, come up with a top level report.

And even as I say that, interestingly enough, one of the, to me, interesting parts of that experience was that it was the first time that I'd been involved in a commission or committee, including my present 11, 12 years experience on the Board of Regets, in which the responsibility for the report was not an exclusively staff responsibility.

For example, Katz of Harvard, he was indistinguishable from staff, without abrasiveness. The various sections of the report were brought to the commission, and literally the commission went over each line, line by line, you know.

I enjoyed it. It was hard work. But it was challenging, it was stimulating. I learned a hell of a lot about American -- not foreign policy, so much, but the opposition of the foreign policy establishment. You know, the personnel, the structure. And I also saw the frustration was not restricted to those of us in the ghetto. You couldn't have wanted a more prestigious commission. You couldn't have wanted a better report. But we had exactly the same inaction on that, that I had with YOUTH IN THE GHETTO.

I am convinced that bureaucracies have spaces similar to