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We used to get mixed up all the time, and finally we agreed, --

Once I said, “All right, Ken, you know what I'll do is, I'll say to people, ‘I'm Kenneth B. Clark, B for Brown.’”

Well, I didn't know what to call him “E” for, but if I'd designate my self as Brown then people would not get us confused so much. I guess that wasn't funny. I genuinedly thought that, because of the similarity of names, and due to the fact that we were always getting each other's mail -- you know, he'd get mine -- so much so that we never even sent notes any more, we'd just put it in an envelope and send it to each other.

But this is what happened. And they told me, no, that I was nominated and I was elected. And interestingly enough, on first nomination, which is unusual. And I was surprised. I was surprised because I didn't think that my colleagues, the majority of my colleagues voting in the APA, would consider my kind of work in psychology other than an embarrassment. But apparently I was wrong.

What did your duties as president really entail?

Going to endless meetings; seeming “balanced,” elder statesmanlike, in terms of pressing issues that -- the blacks, the women, the clinical groups would bring and want instant resolution of.

I'll let you in on a secret -- throughout my tenure as president-elect, and president, -- and you have one more year after you're president to attend board meetings -- I had to struggle