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of age of the children. So that the sample was partly random, and partly determined by what schools I could get into. I could only get into schools in District 3, here in New York City.

Would that have been in Harlem?

That's on the West Side, really. It includes part of Harlem, but it runs all up and down the West Side. I had a good variation in the sample. Again, I'd have to go back and read that, to really be accurate about it. I wasn't nearly as interested in that as I was in -- (the master's)

So then in a way, you might say that your master's thesis or at least that work influenced you more (than this) in the direction that you were to take later?

Oh, yes. Yes.

You mentioned that Kenneth Clark had not at first been interested in children, social psychology. Do you recall when and how he started developing this interest?

I think I influenced him. I don't know what he would say. I don't know what he would say, but for one thing, when I graduated from college, it was customary for students to have a publication. It was customary for the sponsor to publish with the student. Really the sponsor was publishing and the student just got his name on it, on the publication. And I had always been against that for some reason, and I had always said I wasn't going to do that with