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But we've never really put those people in direct contact with the children. You know, they can do something else. They can support a benefit or sell tickets or something. But we're very selective about who works with the children directly. So in that sense, and because of the selectivity, we don't have that difficulty. And we can pretty well spot a person who just wants to “do good,” as opposed to somebody who's really interested and wants to make a service. That's not too difficult. We don't have much trouble with that.

What about your board? Did you have that kind of problem with the board?

No. Again, we've been very careful about who gets on the board. No. We have a very good board, and some good people at the top of it, and that makes all the difference in the world. Jim Dumpson as president is absolutely marvelous. No, we don't have that trouble.

Now, we did at one time have a terrible crisis with the board, and some of this paternalism was part of that. Some of the attitudes which you know about as well as I do caused a bad crisis, and that was the point at which our patron, Marian Ascoli, left us. She deserted us, literally, taking $100,000 with her. And I think if Kenneth and I had been “good people” and, you know, done what they wanted us to do, we would not have had the crisis -- nor would we be as strong as we are today.

What was the specific issue that brought the crisis?