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Well, I think there are isolated incidents which are not so chilling as that. When I first started to go to school, to college, we went on the train at that time. I went to Washington, D.C. from Hot Springs, Arkansas. And I went with a friend of mine, and my father had bought a compartment for us and he had warned us to keep the shades down all the way, and never to go out of the compartment. He had made arrangements with the porters, whom he knew, on this train, to protect us and see that we got fed, you know, and that we were never to go out.

So I'll never forget, the first few trips that I made to college, we made in this closed-up room, only peeping out of the window. And the train came through the South. It came through Louisiana and Georgia, you know, up to Washington, D.C. We were very wary. And that was not a good way to start to go to college.

As you recall it, did you feel primarily that you just had to protect yourself ? Or did you beyond that begin developing any sense of outrage over having to live this kind of segregated life?

I think it was later that I became outraged. It was later. Because you will remember, I had a good time. I really enjoyed my life. It was fun. I think it was later. I think it was probably toward college.

Toward college?

Yes.

Probably before college, nonetheless.