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One was a man who was one of the top officers of the CGT in France, who is now the president of the CGT -- Henri Kryszucki. He came to visit with me with a translator, whom I had known, and we spent a lot of time at the union, but also at someone's home discussing the labor movement in America. He said, “I would like this exhibition to come to the [Centre Georges] Pompidou.” I said, “So would I.” [laughter] “But it's not possible, because the loans will not permit us to take it there.” Those are all paintings that belong to galleries and museums, and private owners. The loan is for a certain period of time -- there's a tour, and that's it.

So then another person who came to see it came to meet with me at that time was a friend -- I'd never met him -- but recommended by Clive Jenkins of the ASTMS in England. That's a large union of professionals and medical and all kind -- computers, everything. Clive Jenkins is an old friend I'd known for many years here, and in England visited with him. Clive had suggested Norman Willis. Norman Willis is today the president of the Trade Union Congress. Norman Willis was then the education direction of the TUC. Norman Willis saw it and he said, “Oh!” he'd love to have this. He said, “Tell me more about Bread and Roses.” I talked to him about Bread and Roses, and I gave him whatever we had. He went back and talked to Clive Jenkins, and they began an annual TUC Bread and Roses festival. Major event. They don't have it any more, of course. It included major rock bands. It took place in a huge theater. It had everything in it. They sent me the documents. They used Earl Dotter's photographs -- it was all modeled after us. There was a full page article in the New Statesman and Nation reviewing it, and referring to the fact that it came from the American Bread and Roses.

The next major exhibition --


Before you go on, what were some of the paintings that were exhibited. Do you recall?


Well, there were some paintings from the Ash Can School. What's his name? I have the American Heritage here, if you want to look at it. Going back to the 1860s, what were some very fine works, and in the thirties. John Sloan. The theme painting was a triptych, “The Salute to the American Worker,” by a woman artist -- I forget her name -- from Rochester. This exhibition, when it toured, toured at the Memorial Art Museum at the University of Rochester, around which there hangs a tale. Because we had organization in Rochester, and when the Memorial Art Museum took the show, and then the hospital management people in Rochester -- we were organizing then -- found

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