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Everybody worked endless hours. We continued to put out all the magazines on schedule and looking very, very good. And the people on the street began to feel the pinch and the shock of the fact that they were not as essential as they thought they were. And I suspect the latter had more to do with it than anything else, namely a deep down fear that maybe they wouldn't ever get reemployed. So after, what was it, five weeks, or three weeks-

Eighteen days.

Eighteen days. After eighteen days it folded. It left a lot of bruised feelings because obviously they were a lot of friends, some who were on the street and many who were inside the Time and Life Building. And it took years for that to erode totally.

Do you remember that there was kind of outside of the Guild itself, I believe it was a Time staff committee that occasionally would meet with Grunwald, or with you and Donovan in 1974 for example, according to Prendergast. While you were having negotiations with the Guild, and over Guild objections, you two met with Times writing and research staff in the company auditorium to hear their gripes.

I guess so but I don't have much memory-

You don't have much memory of that, O.K. We've really breezed over the whole question of women, so let's go back to that. From