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And if you put all those people together in one place it requires considerable management skill because, obviously, they're not the easiest people, they're not trained soldiers. They're not trained to say, “Aye, aye, Sir.” In fact they're trained to say, “No Sir.” So it's a very complicated organizational thing. It falls apart. If you have a dictator at the head, you have one set of problems. If you have somebody who just lets them all go their different ways, you have an incoherent publication.

Was there talk through the years, or a kind of accepted view of what the role of the press in a democratic society is, or should be?

It seems to me that the life of anybody who is in journalism consists of getting involved in that discussion about every three months, for forty years. And there never is a nice final answer to it.

O.K., let's stop for today.

[End tape two, side two. End of interview.]