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Well, no. It had nothing to do with his
overthrow, but I think I did about twenty years of work on
the IAPA. And I thought to myself, well, the time has come
to get out.
But I mean, you didn't go back to Chile under Pinochet.
Oh, only with Donovan. Yeah, we did see Pinochet
You mean on this trip that you described earlier.
Why don't you describe that meeting.
Well, of course first he didn't want to see us.
And then he did. We had to wait quite a long time. And I
think the reason we had to wait quite a long time was he
decided that he would show us that he was really a civilian
leader, because instead of this man in full uniform
receiving us, here was this gentleman in gray slacks and a
tweed jacket [laughs] receiving us. And of course, his talk
was what you can predict. “Well, things are very
difficult. In Latin American countries you can't always
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