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that Us was pretty cheesy. I mean, if there was something in for a dig about People I don't know what you would have said about Us, but the word Us, what do you mean by Us? The word us doesn't tell you anything. People tells you something. Us has sort of puttered along unsuccessfully. Still alive. What is it now? Fourteen, fifteen years later. That took the [?].

Were there ever any awkward moments because your wife is on the Board of Directors of the New York Times?

Oh, she hated Us. She felt it was terrible. So, it wasn't too awkward. But I must say I think, as I look back over the years, both organizations have reached a conclusion, namely that the New York Times knows how to run newspapers, and we know how to run magazines, and we sure don't know to how run newspapers, and they sure don't know how to run--well, they've got some magazines, but they bought them essentially. The ones they have now were mainly purchased and were successful. They have--I forget--something.

Do you have any more notes on People?

No. It's funny, it's so strange. This idea had been lying there. It wasn't an idea. There it was. It was lying there for somebody to pick up, to pick up off the table.

Did anybody say anything to you that cued something off in your mind, or it was just well[?] within you?