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27th of January, 1986. We're at 870 U.N. Plaza, New York City. This is Jessica Holland. Will you state and spell your full name?

This is Andrew Heiskell, spelled H-e-i-s-k-e-l-l.

Okay. We were going to start today--we had left off and I told you to think about the whole question that is referred to inside Time, Inc. as “the division between church and state.” Why won't you discuss that a little bit?

Well, as I think I originally said, there was something slightly phony about church and state, because, whereas Harry Luce was the great proponent of church and state, that was easy enough for him, because he was both church and state. He was the owner, he was the patron. One day he would appear as church, and the next day he would appear as state. Since he was a pretty good businessman as well as being a good editor, this was okay.

There is a reason for church and state, and that's essentially to protect editors from undue influence, persuasion, threats, all forms of trying to force views on them. On the other hand, if you carry church and state too far--which a lot of people have, I