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wars between the magazines. I suppose the circulation wars between the magazines should really be looked at as the circulation war between the magazines and television. We didn't discuss it in those terms at that time, but when you look back, you have to say to yourself, “If there hadn't been TV, there probably wouldn't have been any of those circulation wars, or they would have been much milder.” So, in the 1960s, and I forget just when, when Colliers folded--

In the 1950s.

1950s? Well, the 1950s--

1956 Colliers folded and the 4.18 million circulation was more or less put up for sale, I guess.

And Cowles bought it.

Yes, Look--

Look bought it--

Look bought it and Look's ad rates were increased by fifteen percent and LIFE's gross ad revenues, I guess, for the following year, were off nine million.

Yes, which was partly that, and I think there was also a recession then.