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magazine industry is dead, you're obviously including Time, Fortune, and even Sports Illustrated. This didn't exactly make Time, Inc. into the kind of stock that was the most exciting possibility in the world. [laughs] There were a lot of people who very seriously said the magazine industry is going to be dead. It's really strange when you look six or eight years later to see how wrong they all were and how alive the magazine industry is--with the exception of those big ones. The big ones suffered from big size, and LIFE suffered from direct, head-on competition with television.

Right at the same time, I believe, as you announced LIFE folding you also announced the sale of Time, Inc.'s portion in St. Francisville to Crown Zellerbach.

Yes. Wow! We had financed the St. Francisville thing starting I forget when--six, eight years before--on the theory it was going to be able to make better, cheaper, paper. And it was a complete disaster from day one, namely, it didn't get going, and when it got going it didn't create good paper, and it turned out to be expensive paper. There wasn't anything about it that was any good. It was sheer disaster. And we had to dump it, of course, because we couldn't use the paper once LIFE folded.

But then, of course, you must have been gratified because the stock price reacted positively to these announcements.

Oh, yes. Sure.