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have any tangible proof that it's Hughes. So we got close to publishing time when Hughes's associate--oh, what was his name?--who'd worked with him, blew the whistle. And at first, we questioned his motive--whether he was really blowing the whistle or whether there was something else involved. Whether Hughes had changed his mind at the last moment--and Hughes has been known to change his mind every five seconds on occasions. Well, the rest, as they say, is history. Clifford Irving had pulled off one of the best hoaxes ever. It's a shame, too, because it was a hell of a good story.

What was the significance of this whole hoax at LIFE or for journalism?

Oh, it was a terrible blow to all of us! To us and to McGraw.

What kind of blow? You mean a public relations blow?

Sure! A credibility blow! Yes. Very embarrassing.

Well, that coincided with the last year of LIFE. Do you--I mean, was it just one more depressing event, or--

The best way to put it is we didn't need that, too.

Since we're on that subject: what was your thinking through the