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Absolutely.

They had the votes, let's say.

They had the votes, yes. If you've got 35% of the stock, you control. If you can vote 35% of the stock, you're in effect a private company. There isn't anybody who can come in and do anything much about it.

Right. Okay. Let's continue with management. Let's start with your description of how in fact--leave Donovan on the side for a moment, because he's so distinct as editorial director--or maybe he shouldn't be left on the side, it's up to you--but how this Linen-Heiskell situation worked.

In the first year, I spent a lot of time abroad. You have to remember that in the 1950s, all American companies became international. It was like an explosion. They all went abroad, and we would say to ourselves: “What's the matter with us that we can't do it?” So I took on that responsibility. I won't go into detail about it now, other than to say if there's one thing that's very difficult to go international with, it's the written word, or the spoken word.

We'll talk about that later.

Yes. But that was sort of one big effort, and that took