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that unfortunate interview which you know about, where he was talking to the editor of Texas Magazine who brought along somebody from the Village Voice. And he was just talking about this and that and saying he didn't see why all the magazines had to be in New York and why couldn't Sports Illustrated be in Peoria, something like that. Well, my God, that came out in print, and everybody jumped up and down. What they forgot was that Luce had at one point thought we should move our headquarters to Cathedral in the cornfields of Iowa.

Was he, though, in addition to--when you say he had this big mouth--was he a useful advisor to you?

Sometimes, yes. Sometimes cockeyed.

How much of a role, in fact, did he play? I mean, so far, if I've heard you correctly, you say he made a lot of noise.

Yes.

But, I mean, did he do anything more substantive than that in your time?

Oh, sure. He was a major factor in buying Inland--

Okay. Of course.

--and that was a big move. And the company that has now