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protecting your industry and the workers you represent. I have a broader interest and that's what I have to protect.” And at the end of the half hour -- and he's very upset -- he says to these fur manfacturers: “That's all right. I'll have Alex Rose call him.” (laughs) But of course Alex Rose won't call me on that. Alex Rose is too decent to call me on such a thing... I hope.

So anyway in the case involving McCarthy and Kennedy, I supported Kennedy and then he was shot. That was a great pity; I was very emotional about that. And that's it.

You want to talk about Bella Abzug?

Yes, except I just wanted to know: what was your degree of enthusiasm when Humphrey became the candidate?

Oh, when Humphrey became the candidate, then the pitch was: “I will not support Hubert Humphrey unless he comes out against the war.” There was that kind of rhetoric, which I maintained until about two weeks before the election. It was rather one to force Humphrey to a better position on the war. He did not have a good position. And (2) it was what the New Left and the reform movement position was in the city, and so I went along with it. I must say I'm not happy with exactly the way I handled it, but I think from a political point of view it was correct. From a courageous, moral point of view, it was not. But I knew that before that election, I was going to come out for Humphrey. We were just planning how do we do that? I mean you had Nat