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people who are really totally anti the American system. I'm not suggesting that in every case they're party card-holders. But I'm talking about a general philosophical approach.

Or orientation.

Orientation, exactly. Everything we do is bad; everything the Communists do is good. That's the thrust of it. You can talk about North and South Vietnam. North Vietnam was wonderful from their point of view; South Vietnam was terrible from their point of view. From my point of view, they both were terrible They're both totalitarian countries or groupings, whatever you want to call them. So while I opposed the war in Vietnam, it wasn't because I wanted North Vietnam to win -- it was that I didn't think that we should be there. That's all, supporting one totalitarian regime against another. They deserved one another was the way I would like to couch it and did not believe we should be spending our blood and our treasure in support of a totalitarian, corrupt regime. Okay.

Now, getting back to Bella. In 1970 she ran for the first time, and she ran against Farbstein. And Farbstein didn't take her seriously -- a great error on his part. Most of the clubs in his area, which was the lower east side at that time, didn't take her seriously; and she beat him. And she said at one point