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Notable New     Yorkers
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Edward KocheEdward Koche
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Session:         Page of 617

take insurance with him. I think the city is a self-insurer. But if you get somebody who has some other kind of contract -- and once again I haven't any direct knowledge, but it comes to mind as something that would be feasible...

(Side 2)

An individual gets a contract with the city to either sell the city something or to provide certain services. That individual then, whatever business he may be involved in, may need insurance for other purposes -- not for the city but for other things that he's doing. I assume it's quite possible that he might, if he was appreciative to Carmine and Carmine had provided him with a job -- it would be perfectly legal for him to say, “I'm going to reward a friend of mine,” and give Carmine an insurance contract. I don't know if that happened. That would be an extension of “honest” graft.


what did you understand as Carmine's source of funds?


I never understood it. The insurance business was his major business. I don't know whether he's a rich man or a poor man. I just don't know that. My gut feeling would be that monies were paid to Carmine for judgeships, for other things. I have no way of proving that. That would be a gut reaction.


And when you mentioned J. Raymond Jones as being among the worst of the crop...

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