Session: 123456789101112131415161718         Page 32333435363738394041424344454647484950515253545556575859606162636465 of 617

able to tell you about that than I am. But he did leave, and then he always sniped at us. He and Gwen Worth would generally write letters about the time that we were running against Carmine, not pro Carmine but anti-VID that would appear in the Voice or the Villager or somewhere. I never forgave them for that.

I also remember that I had a conversation with him when I was running in 1962 for the Assembly and he was for Passannante, and I remember that he supported Passannante and didn't support me, and I never forgave him for that. (laughs) That's the stuff of politics, you know. It was summed up by Jack Kennedy. I had a conversation with Senator Bob Kennedy. Shall I tell you about this?

Yes. One thing, though, before you go into that, I just want to identify Gwen Worth.

She was the female district leader candidate. She never became district leader.

That was with Charlie McGuinness in 1959.

Right and maybe even in '57 with Herman -- I'm not sure. In any event, just to give you this little anecdote: When I decided I was going to run for Congress, I was then a City Councilman and so the race would be in November '68. So in November '67, the year