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overwhelmingly.

Now, do I recall -- Pete Caneveri was quite a young fellow? In other words, he wasn't older.

Oh, no, I'd say he was maybe younger than I was.

Incidentally, did DeSapio manage Passannante's campaign against you or did he not?

I don't think so.

Was this made part of the campaign rhetoric, though?

Oh, sure. There's no doubt about it: we weren't running against Passannante -- we were running against DeSapio.

And did Passannante manage DeSapio's district leader campaign against you? Did you charge that we did or...?

Remember I didn't run in '61. In '61 it was Lanigan who ran. I ran in '63.

Right, I'm talking about '63.