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but it remained for us to see what would happen to both of us. In any case, we were determined that our interests would not be lessened nor would our activities.

How did your colleagues on these various Institute boards react?

They didn't know anything about it, because actually the Council meetings...

What were they, largely medical people?

Medical people and a few laymen who were not well-informed about the mechanics of government, and most of them didn't have any idea of how the money had been gotten and we didn't enlighten them, because we didn't think that most of them could add very much. Now, this wasn't always true. Sometimes there was someone who was helpful, but on the whole they had no idea that we had been responsible for the passage of four acts that established four of the Institutes and that we had to do with the urging of funds for them.

What would be the purpose of a lay person serving on a board like that, if he didn't have this kind of interest?

Well, sometimes lay people bring a kind of detached point of view and remind the doctors of what the problem is all