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When the House bill was marked up, they, however, added only 10 million to the 101 million allowance of the B.O.B. In other words, they had voted 111 million, though we were working to get an additional 25 million for the five Institutes.

In order to meet the recommendations of the Advisory Councils.

Yes.

However, looking over what had been recommended, it looked as if we'd have little chance of getting the additional 25 million unless additional amounts were recommended by witnesses for the Cancer, Mental Health and Heart Institutes, as it had always been the custom of the House and the Senate to vote less than the Councils or the witnesses had advised. Consequently, I urged the witnesses for Cancer and Heart and Mental Health Institutes to ask for more money than the Councils had asked for. The witnesses were different from the members of the Councils. The citizen witnesses were groups of people who were gotten together through various means and briefed by Lou Quinn and Mike Gorman to testify for whatever they felt as individuals was necessary, but they usually agreed between them on what they were going to ask for for each Institute.

And you were optimistic that you could get the various Institute officials to recommend additional funds?

No, no, these were only the witnesses that would appear