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happening. Now, they've heard that it's happening and they're for research but not for so much money to be spent on it; they say it's too much money and the money can't be spent effectively.

I heard that mentioned the other day at your luncheon.

A doctor said this to you?

It was mentioned in one of the speeches.

Oh, yes, Fogarty was trying to answer this kind of a charge, which Basil O'Connor, believe it or not, who ought to be in favor of research money as it was privately raised research money was what got a polio vaccine--he should be in favor of more funds for research because he's seen the payoff of research money--voices; that is, he's opposed to federal research money. And it was his kind of talk that Fogarty was trying to answer.

The whole story seems to be an awfully good illustration of how practical politics and the game of politics impede real progress sometimes in this country.

Yes, there's no doubt about it, just absolutely no doubt about it.

And yet with our system there's no way around this.